An Immigrant's American Dreams

As a young man in the east African nation of Rwanda, Cedric Muhikira was interested in construction and went to college to become a civil engineer. But he knew that to reach the pinnacle of success in that field, he had to study and practice in the United States. He emigrated in 2019, just in time for the COVID pandemic. And while his growth as an American was put on hold during that time, things blossomed for Cedric in 2021. He is now a civil engineer for a consulting firm supervising the proper use of construction materials. He is also back in school getting a degree in concete technology. As the number 2 building material in the world second only to water, concrete is a $600 billion industry. He hopes one day to take his expertise back to his home country.

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Transcript

(0:00) Welcome to Type Tune Tint, I'm Tom Kranz. (0:04) Today's guest has navigated the American immigrant experience with success, (0:09) and today a measure of caution. Cedric Muakira came to the U.S. in 2019 from Rwanda, (0:15) where he had a passion for construction and a college degree.
In his six years in Michigan, (0:20) he's become a civil engineer while traversing the obstacles and uncertainties of being an immigrant. (0:25) He also found the time to write his first novel, detailing the experience of landing in a new (0:30) country, alone and unfamiliar with the customs, in hopes that other immigrants will see a kindred (0:36) spirit. 

And I'm joined by Cedric Muakira from his palatial estate in the suburbs of Detroit, (0:43) Michigan.
And Cedric, I said before we started rolling, I am thrilled (0:48) and shocked actually that you decided to actually do this at eight o'clock on a Sunday morning with (0:53) me. But hey, I'm an early riser and you are too, evidently. How are you today? (0:58) Yeah, I'm doing good.
How are you over there? (1:00) I'm good. So I'm in New Jersey, you're in Michigan. We're separated by, actually, (1:05) we're in the same time zone, I think, right? (1:07) Yep.

(1:07) Yeah. So we have about a two-hour plane flight between us. The reason we're interviewing (1:13) Cedric is my attention was drawn to his first novel, which I mentioned briefly in the opening, (1:20) Libaax: Grow Your Roots Where You Land.
And this is very broadly, it's a novel about an (1:28) immigrant who comes to the United States from Somalia. You, of course, were an immigrant who (1:33) came from another East African country. We'll get to your backstory, but let's first get to (1:38) your today's story.
So today you're basically, you work for a civil engineering firm, correct? (1:43) Yes, that's correct. (1:44) And what do you do? (1:45) So I am basically a quality control personnel on the site. Let's say you want to do your (1:54) foundation or the whole building.
So you need people to check the building capacity with the (2:02) soil, really carry the whole building. So that's why, that's where I came in to just (2:09) see how the foundation, the trench looks like, your concrete, asphalt. So yeah, I'm there to (2:17) see if the contractor is doing what you really, what he said he's going to do to the client.

(2:23) So I'm like the concrete police. That's right. (2:26) So you're one of the people who makes sure that the very basis of a building is up to code, (2:32) up to spec so that 20 years from now, the building doesn't collapse, correct? (2:37) That's correct.
Yeah. (2:39) So when I saw in one of your CVs, one of your resumes that you are going to school for (2:46) concrete technology, which I find fascinating. And the reason I find it fascinating is because (2:51) when I worked at CBS, I had an office on the fourth floor of the building and I had a huge (2:56) window in my office that looked down on a construction site.
They were building a (3:01) from scratch. And so I could look down on the foundation. They were driving the piles (3:08) into the ground, into the bedrock.
And I could never get, how do they know exactly (3:12) where to drive those piles, right? And then the big concrete pump, the Putzmeister machine came (3:17) in and dropped all this. And I just was like, I could, you know, I felt like I was five years (3:21) old watching them put this stuff together. So you're one of those dudes, right? You're one (3:25) of the people who makes sure that's all being done correctly.
(3:28) Right. So now concrete is the, actually the second most used material after drinking the water, (3:38) the water we use every day. So concrete is the next thing.

Like we use it as much as we use water. (3:44) You mean in the whole world? (3:46) Yes. In the whole, that's correct.
(3:47) Wow. So, you know, of course, none of us, you know, people not in your field would know that, (3:52) but, you know, I take for granted when I see guys laying concrete and pumping concrete, (3:57) that this is just something that's been going on for decades and generations. But what is, (4:02) is there some, so what is new in concrete technology these days? Has anything changed (4:08) in the way concrete is made over the years? (4:10) Yes.
So one thing I'm going to mention quickly is the friendly, environment friendly (4:17) ways of doing concrete. So that is what we are pushing today. A quick example, (4:23) as I said, concrete is the second most used material worldwide.

Now it is the third most (4:29) polluter worldwide. (4:31) Is that right? (4:32) Yeah. So now how are we going to bring this pollution to like really low numbers? So we (4:38) enjoy concrete because we really need it.
We build with it. It is this, you know, the hardest as rug. (4:46) So it's, you know, something we need for this generation of buildings.
(4:49) So as a pollutant, it becomes a pollutant when it gets demolished and then (4:54) it's not disposed of or just because it exists? (4:57) No, no, no. So for concrete, it has different parts of concrete, I would say stones, (5:04) the cement, the actual binding material, which looks grayish in color. So to produce (5:10) the grayish cement, the binder, that is where the problem is.
So you have like hit the rocks (5:18) and then it's you're doing the process for hitting the rocks into like these more tiny (5:24) key material. And so it takes a lot of energy. That's where the pollution starts.

So (5:30) wow. (5:31) Usually that's where the problem is. (5:33) All right.
Well, thank God people like you know what this is all about because I had no clue. (5:37) The only thing I know about concrete as a pollutant is that when I was, I was a councilman (5:43) in our town for a while. And when we went to curbside recycling, the company that does our (5:49) recycling also recycles concrete.
In fact, it's their bread and butter. It's their biggest, (5:54) it's their biggest customer, I guess. So when I drove through there, I saw piles and piles and (6:00) piles of concrete that was once dug up from roads.
You could see the rebar, you know, (6:06) sticking out and they hadn't gotten to it yet, but all the stuff that reinforces it. (6:11) And it's lying there. And I said, how on earth do you possibly, I mean, obviously they know how (6:16) to recycle concrete, but that's, of course, as you know, a huge, a huge industry.
And, (6:21) you know, as I guess what they do is they grind it up and they make it into something new. Correct? (6:26) Right. Yeah.
So concrete is the, yeah. So for the U.S. is a 600 billion dollar industry. (6:34) So it's so huge.

So the recycling is part of it because, you know, after five, six years, (6:41) you're going to have problems. So you tear the whole street apart. So you grind everything.
So (6:47) use that as a crushed concrete. So you can use it as an aggregate base before laying the new (6:55) concrete at the top. So it's like, you know, a repetitive thing.
And I want to take that to (7:01) my country as well. We, we don't use as much concrete as we should. And that's, that's thing.
(7:08) I wanted us ready for it. I go back. Wow.

So, and your country is your initial, (7:15) your native country is Rwanda, correct? Yes, that's correct. (7:18) And you came here when? 2019, August. (7:22) So you've been here for coming up on, what is that? Six years? (7:26) Six years, yes.
That's correct. Yeah. And how come, why did you end up, (7:28) why did you want to come to America as opposed to any other country? (7:33) Right.
I usually use this example, how the Egypt used to be the biggest empire in the world. So (7:42) every scholar who ever existed during the time period had migrated there to like learn, (7:50) understand things. And so the U.S. in my time today as we speak, I see it as the same thing (7:58) biggest empire, greatest country.
So you've got to learn how to base exposure in whatever industry (8:05) and then yeah, take over from there. Wow. No kidding.
So in Lee Box, your book, (8:14) Grow Your Roots Where You Land. I think that the subtitle kind of summarizes what the purpose of (8:20) the novel is and what the basic storyline is. You write a novel, it's, it's fiction.
Your main (8:26) character, your protagonist is named Ayaan. He's from Somalia and the book opens with him (8:32) showing up at an airport with nothing but one suitcase. And that's what he comes here with.
(8:37) He comes with one, one case of belongings. I guess the cup that he makes his tea in (8:44) and he's from Somalia. He, he hooks up with a friend who is also Somalian.
(8:48) They share this little apartment and it's kind of about his slow integration and his kind of (8:54) feeling of isolation as a brand new immigrant who doesn't know anything about the United States. (9:01) He moves to Detroit and everything's different and he's not comfortable with the language yet. (9:06) Is that parallel your experience when you came here?

 Yes.
I would say 60 to 70%. I went through (9:13) the hard experience. So I just added my friend's experience to give Ayaan a broader exposure to (9:22) new ways of living in a familiar land.
So did you know any English when you came here? (9:30) Yes. So yeah, I went to college in Rwanda and Rwanda is an English speaking country. (9:38) It's like an official language.
I would believe. Yeah. So yeah, everybody, especially.

(9:45) So that's a huge help. At least you knew the language, right? At least that's a great (9:48) starting point. And when you got, what did you do for work when you first got here? (9:53) So basically I've always been into construction and building things.
So that's the things I (10:01) straight went into. I waited a little bit to get the work authorization and the good stuff to work (10:11) regularly. And then I have, ever since I've been into construction, (10:15) I don't know, my safe space, I'd say is what I feel like my calling is into.
(10:22) So you were into construction and concrete and building even in Rwanda. (10:27) Yes. So before I left Rwanda, I was working on this big infrastructure project, supposed to be (10:36) one of the biggest airport in Africa with like, I believe 8 million people per year.
And yeah, (10:44) I was actually doing the same thing. Concrete, quality control, making sure the concrete is (10:52) good and standard as we expect it to be. Yeah, sure.

So, you know, I hate to admit this, (11:00) but I think that like many Americans, you know, I know very little about Rwanda. I know very little (11:07) about Somalia. Most of the stuff that we know is not good.
You know, I know that there was (11:12) a pretty nasty civil war in Rwanda for a number of years. You know, Somalia, I associate Somalia (11:20) with, you know, the movie Blackhawk Down, you know, and the American, you know, what happened (11:25) there during those days and then the whole pirate thing. But I'm sure that there's much more to both (11:30) of those countries than just those stereotypes, right? You sent me a couple of photographs (11:35) of you.
It looks like, I'm guessing back home, you're wearing these white robes with the black (11:40) polka dots. What is, is that some kind of a ceremony or is that a celebration or what are (11:45) those pictures of? Yeah, so those are actually, that was my cousin's wedding. She went all out (11:52) to do the culture.
She, her husband is actually the, I would say the most cultured person in our (12:02) country. Gotcha. Yeah.
So it was a really beautiful wedding ceremony. It was, it was amazing. (12:10) Yeah.
It was prior to your beard and your goatee and your, I had to look and say, wow, (12:15) he looks like he's 15 years old there. Yeah. I would say, I believe first year of college, (12:21) if I'm correct.

Your writing is very, it's, it's descriptive almost to a granular extent. You, (12:30) you do a lot of metaphors, right? A lot of metaphoric writing about his memories, (12:35) a lot of memories about home and his mother and, you know, things he remembers growing up (12:42) that he brings with him because he doesn't have any new memories yet. He has to make them.
(12:47) He gets a job, uh, at a, as a dishwasher, which is not his favorite thing. Right. And then he, (12:53) ultimately he makes it big as a DJ.
Right. And he makes it big because he, he mixes kind of Detroit (13:01) urban sounds with Somalian music, Somalian kind of traditional music. And he layers those on top (13:08) of each other.
And it turns out that he becomes a huge hit on the Detroit party scene because of (13:14) that. And because he's also a nice guy and, you know, it's a very positive story. Would you say (13:19) that your first couple of years here were as positive as that, even though you did something (13:25) different or were there some obstacles that you could have totally done without? 

Yes.
So I came (13:33) 2019 and the COVID hit really few months after. So I really never had, you know, the, the exposure (13:43) for the first few, I say the first year, I was just pretty much like that. So I never really had, (13:52) uh, those basic experiences, I would say.
And then, uh, by the third year, uh, I would say 2021, (14:02) that's when I picked up, uh, that's when my life picked up again. I get a job and, um, (14:09) a lot of concerts, a lot of music. That's why Ayan has a DJing, uh, into his, uh, profile.
And (14:17) I also DJ for fun. So I was acting out, how do we build life? Like, you know, nobody knows you. (14:24) So the social life, how my generation loves music.

So how can we get to my people? So I was like, (14:31) with Ayan as a DJ, send him out and I go to clubs. I go to like a event or we call them (14:41) open decks where they bring the new DJs, like with your experience, just hang out. So that's where I (14:48) get to meet young people, my, like my age and speak.
And then when I play a little bit of, uh, (14:55) Afrobeat, uh, I'm a piano, koharami songs, you know, with a little bit of Detroit techno, (15:01) then it's like a different sound. Everybody's like, man, yeah, now they know I'm, uh, I'm (15:06) different. I'm from some other place.
I'm not just an immigrant. They have, you know, something (15:12) texture to, uh, to the culture. It's like, uh, it's like an eye opening when somebody hears those (15:18) beats for the first time and then they give him a moment, you know, they like, you know, (15:23) acknowledge you be like, yeah, now we see you.
So that's what I wanted to like give Ayan or any (15:29) other immigrant to have something to like, you know, offer. So people will see you be like, (15:34) yeah, now you're really doing something. Well, I am in your book.
He really, he's, (15:40) he shoots up to the top of the DJ world. He becomes kind of a star, I guess, in that, (15:46) in that, uh, environment. And then he makes plenty of friends, he gets a love interest and she kind (15:51) of comes and goes, and then he gets his motorcycle, which he names Lee box, which is, uh, (15:57) which means lion.

And that becomes part of his identity, right? This is kind of part of him (16:04) becoming his whole self, as he calls it, you know, not living in the shadows as a, (16:09) as an immigrant anymore. Did you find coming here as an immigrant of color, you know, kind of (16:16) speaking with an accent, did you find, um, people giving you problems for that? Did you (16:23) have to deal with any of that kind of negative crap? Yes. So two things it's either you're going (16:31) to pull somebody in, want to be attentive, listen to you, or it's going to be like, oh man, (16:37) this is going to be the whole day conversation.
How, you know, yeah. So, you know, I've seen both (16:43) faces be like, yeah, this is going to be a long, you know, kind of conversation. Then somebody be (16:49) like, oh man, entertain me more.

And I want to hear more of the accent. So yeah, I've had both (16:54) ways. Do you find that in your working life as well? Yes.
Yes. Especially, uh, my job, I'm more (17:02) like, uh, supervising, see how things are. So when things are going wrong or horribly wrong, (17:10) you know, sometimes a contractor can, you know, back out and be like, you know, is, (17:15) is this guy actually qualified to even tell me my things are wrong? And then when I see those (17:22) kinds of things, I'm like, you know, well, I'm, I have the chain of command and I'm not going to (17:28) engage.
So I think engineering problems, you know, the engineering problems, you don't talk, (17:34) fight over those. It's like, you know, do these to adjust. So yeah, I have, I have those days.

(17:41) So in addition to doing a job that's very probably demanding and requires precision (17:46) and requires accuracy, you have to deal with people who don't give you credibility because (17:53) of maybe the way you look or the way you sound. So you have to work a little harder, I guess. (17:59) Yeah.
So, um, I have, uh, you know, I stay, I stay on the point on the top of everything, (18:04) you know, make sure if it is a five, yes, it is a five. So, you know, there's no problems (18:10) afterwards be like, yeah, I knew, I knew it all along, you know? Yeah. (18:15) I got you.
Yeah. I, you know, my, uh, I, I speak because my, my parents went through this a little (18:21) bit when they came here, they came from, as I said, they were, came from post-war Germany in the 50s. (18:26) They both spent, spoke with accents.
They knew no English when they came here. (18:30) My dad only picked it up because he immediately started working. Um, and, uh, we had, you know, (18:37) he, he would have stories every once in a while of some of the guys making fun of his accent and (18:42) whatnot, but a lot of the guys he worked with, they were from other places too.

He, we worked, (18:46) my neighborhood is a lot of European immigrant families. We have people from Ukraine, Italians, (18:52) we had some, I mean, we had a little bit of everything, you know, you know, a bunch of (18:56) white people, but their families all came from Europe and some of them would, they were first (19:01) or second generation. So they kind of got it a little bit.
And I got to say, growing up in (19:06) Philadelphia and now in New Jersey, you know, both of these places are part of the, what I (19:11) call the extended melting pot of the Northeast. You know, we have people here of every, from (19:15) everywhere, you know, people, they come from everywhere. And my kids went to a school that (19:20) was very diverse.
And I grew up in a diverse kind of, after I left my little lily white (19:25) neighborhood, you know, I went out into the world and that, you know, Philadelphia has everybody (19:29) now. I think that's really important. You know, I think it's important, but people know that (19:34) they're not the center of the universe, that there is a much bigger universe out there.
(19:38) What is, if I can ask you a very broad question about the message of your book, (19:43) if the, what is, what is the message of your book? What do you, why did you write it? And (19:46) what is important for people to know about it? (19:49) Right. So the first thing is the, the belonging finding a place where like, nobody knows you, (19:57) how do you address, how do you find life? Because I believe this is all we have. This is the one (20:05) life, you know, the afterlife is there.

I, you know, it's maybe, but I want to have the best (20:11) life here. So if I'm where nobody knows me, I'm still have to find ways to live this life as much (20:19) as best as, as I can. And that's what the message I talk about, the resilience, freedom.
How do you (20:29) go heartbreak in the end of the country? Because dating, we have like a culture and now we have (20:36) different culture. Yeah. The integration in general, but most of all, the message is resilience (20:43) and freedom and belonging.
Gotcha. All right. We're going to talk more about that.
And also (20:50) about your writing process. Like I'm always interested in how, you know, do you like sit (20:55) in a dark room and write, or do you yell into your iPhone at a red light or how do you come up (21:00) with your ideas and stuff? First, we're going to take a quick break and I'm going to promote (21:04) my latest book and we'll be right back with Cedric Muakira. Don't go away.
(21:09) In the year 2090, the lunar colony known as the Daedalus Dome is under attack. (21:17) The 6,000 earth expats face mass suffocation. (21:21) Their AI powered androids are self-destructing.

Who is responsible? (21:29) A 10-year-old girl named Peach has the answers. Will the world believe her? Hack Rescue, (21:35) the new sci-fi adventure from Tom Krantz. Available in softcover, hardcover, (21:40) ebook, and audio book.
Hack Rescue, chasing a cyber killer. (21:49) And we're back with Cedric Muakira. He is in suburban Detroit.
I'm in New Jersey. (21:54) By the way, it's going to be a hundred degrees today in New Jersey. I hope it's not that hot.
(21:59) Where you are, but hey, it's summer. It happens, right? Hey, (22:02) Rwanda gets lots of hot weather, I guess, right? (22:06) So Rwanda is south of the equator. We are next to DRC, the Democratic Republic of Congo.
It's like (22:15) one of the biggest forest country in the world. So we get the breeze. Yeah.
I would say Rwanda is (22:23) nice. I would say 60, 70, 80 degrees. (22:28) Really? Okay.
All right. Well, when I take it back, it's not all a hundred degrees. All right.
(22:34) So I'm going to ask you just one or two more immigrant questions and then we'll move on to (22:39) the book. We live in a time now and we both agreed that we're not going to delve into the (22:46) politics of immigration because that's another podcast, folks, not doing that here. But (22:52) I think it's fair to say that in June of 2025, which is where we are now, I think that there (22:59) is probably more fear and angst in the immigrant community in America than there ever has been.

(23:05) We're talking not just among people who are here illegally, but people who are here legally, (23:10) people who are here on visas with green cards, people who became citizens. Do you feel that? (23:14) Do you feel that either yourself or among your own friends or immigrants? (23:20) Yes. Outside by myself, actually, I have a publicist.
She's doing the best job. (23:27) Yes, she is. She led me to you.
(23:29) Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So she find me this interview.
She was actually going to pitch me (23:33) in Los Angeles, fly in, do in-person interview. But when she told me the proposal, the first (23:40) thing I thought was, oh man, I can never be at LAX anyway at this time because I'm not going to know (23:47) safety for us. It's going crazy over there.
So I was like, no, don't even think about it. (23:53) So you turned it down because you didn't want to go to LAX. (23:55) Yes, absolutely.
I was like, no. (23:56) Because of what you've seen on TV. (23:58) Yes.
Yeah. I mean, LA is like, yeah, no, I don't want to be anywhere. (24:04) Oh, that's a shame.
(24:05) Yes. So I was like, let's try something different. And yeah, maybe next time.
(24:10) So you have to settle with me by Zoom from me in New Jersey here. Oh, well, bigger and better (24:16) is on the way. 

What about where you live? I understand that Michigan has a fairly large (24:23) immigrant community.
A lot of people from the Middle East, from Africa. There's a (24:27) large Muslim community in Michigan. Is that true? And do you find that welcoming? I mean, (24:32) have you found it fairly, I hate to use the word safe, but I'll use the word safe where you are.
(24:37) Yeah. So I feel like Michigan and Detroit, I feel a lot safer. Maybe I've been here for close (24:44) to six years.
Yeah. But I feel I have a, it's a poorly evolved, well-made family. I have like (24:53) friends.
I have older people, like in my book, I talk about Marcus is 15, nine year old. Yeah. I (25:01) have like older people that I talk to.
So I feel more like, you know, even if I get into trouble, (25:06) I'll have somebody to call. (25:08) All right. Let's talk about writing.
So when did you get the idea to write this book and why did (25:13) you do it? So just my experiences. I don't, I don't really have, I didn't have any book to read (25:22) about the first immigration person point of view. How do you deal with all this craziness? Besides (25:30) my friends telling me, we do this and that.

So I was like, yeah, let me, let me make a roadmap, (25:37) create an iron, somebody who humble beginnings and then, you know, build himself up. So whoever (25:46) comes to U.S. or elsewhere in the world or whoever feels outsider, read the book and feel, ah, (25:53) there's another person who went through all of this, even if it's an ancient character, but it's (25:57) more like, you know, there's a hope to it. There is a dream.
There's waking up regardless, being (26:04) invisible, go out there, create something for yourself. So yeah, that's what I wanted. I (26:12) envisioned when I picked up the pen, started writing my stories, it was more like, you know, (26:17) bring in those people who really don't know what to do in our cases.
So you actually, you had kind (26:24) of two reasons. Reason number one was catharsis for yourself to kind of put your own experiences (26:30) down on paper and out there, but also as kind of maybe kind of like an instruction manual for other, (26:37) other, other immigrants. Like, you know, I went through this, you might be experienced in this (26:42) same thing.

And the ultimate message is you'll probably be okay, I guess, because Ion in your (26:47) book turns out to be, you know, better than okay. Just like you. Absolutely.
Yeah. And I think, (26:53) I think that's what makes us, you know, part of the new society. I don't believe we are (27:00) consumers, as you'd say.
Maybe I'm going to go into economic a little bit. To have a functioning (27:11) economy or country, as my second book will be, you need to have land, capital, (27:18) entrepreneur, talent, and human resources. So now we are the human resources.
We (27:26) do things. So we're not just consuming. So if Ion from zero to being somebody who does things, (27:35) that's, that's what makes that culture he's into more like, yeah, these guys here doing things.
(27:42) That's, that's, that's my message. We're not going to be consumers or abiding to the new (27:48) culture. And I'm going to add to it, you know, produce and be fruitful to the new world.

(27:55) So are you, did I read someplace that you're going to school also now? (27:59) Yes. (28:00) To get a master's or whatever in your, in your, or is it a PhD? (28:04) Not a PhD. (28:05) I did an associate degree in civil engineering back home.
So when I moved, I came, (28:19) I was wanting to grow, you know, move from this position to the next level. So in the, (28:25) in the construction is more like a land ranks. So if you're not up here, education level, (28:33) it's going to take you years to get there.
So I was like, you know, I got to go back to school (28:37) and I still have it in me. And I don't mind if I'm studying with the, with the kids or (28:43) younger generation and we know I'm there, you know? Yeah. Because this is, this is it.
I want (28:48) to be a big guy as well. So yeah. (28:51) Yeah.
Hey, when I went to EMT school, I was like in my mid forties, I was the second oldest guy in (28:57) that class. There was a cop in there who I think was probably 50. Yeah.

It was the classes were (29:02) popular. I mean, even today EMT classes are mostly kids in their late teens, early twenties who want (29:08) to have a future in that. So while you were writing this book, you were working and going to school.
(29:16) Yes. (29:17) So how did you do that? How did you, when did you have time to write? (29:21) Well, so I think I usually get, I'm not like a former writer as former writer would say, (29:30) so I get inspiration. I feel there's a story to write down and then just write it down.
And yeah, (29:40) I think I get time, 24 hours. It's. (29:44) Yeah.
But when, I mean, did you do it in between school and work? Did you come home at five o'clock (29:50) and sit down for an hour? Did you do it on weekends? Did you wake up at three in the (29:54) morning or when did you actually do the writing is my question. (29:57) Right. So it's in the morning.
So mornings are.